taking from the poor to give to the rich

[blastervnd]

does anyone else think that there are ways in which flyff now makes poor player poorer an rich players richer?
for example TAX, who get acces to tax guild with at least 11 heros that could kill all the mob and survive, aren't heros rich enough? so the average player who makes his/her money by selling drops to the npc is forced to give 20% of what ever he/she makes to the riches guild in the server? am i crazy or that looks wrong? in the same way lets take at red chips..... shouldn't we all have the same right to buy a red chip? well the darkon tower winning guild says u can't and they decide what to charge for it. preparation actually says that 2.5bfor a bloody set is not enough, they are making a 500m profit on it and they want more..... is this fair?


feel free to say any other way in which u think a small better say very small group of player gets favored by the not well thought flyff economic design

[leobow]

mostly in flyff rich ppl get only more money and poor ppl are just poor

[krmit]

I could safely say that people who are rich in game about 85-90% of those people buy gpotatos on a regular basis. There really is no easy way to get ahead in this game unless your very good at merchanting. boss hunting really doesnt cut it untill way later in the game and even then it pretty much sucks.

And for the people who do tower siege to win with their guild usually are spending alot of money on remantis lacotte, holy and resurection scrolls and blessings, and other CS. They probably at best just break even.

Also, if you dont like your taxes going to just that guild you should vote for a lord. Yes, the lord will get a portion of the tax money but the lord can also hold EXP events and Drop events which can help you get back some of that hard earned and given away cash.

[_razied]

i think you have missed the point.

The Fylff economy works almost the same as a real life capitalst society. In both worlds wealth requirs effort! just in real life as in flyff the wealthy and powerful extract weath from the weak and poor ie its a dog eat dog world. Those who can afford gpots have access to an easier path to wealth and power ( as they are one in the same) than those who don't. Now before you start with the it's not fair crap, i agree it's not fair, but it is a true picture of the way things are. That being said you have 3 choices, 1) quit the game 2) cry like a little girl till someone feels sorry for you and gives you something you don't deserve 3) man up and take this chance to empower your self. Any game worth playing should be challenging to the point of not being fair, example tic tac toe is a game. one move each till someone has 3 in a row, fair as can be. Problem is its boring as crap. Take this chance to improve your merchanting skills, master the markets, build your weath and power, because like i said, flyff economy is almost exactly like the real world and if you can succed in flyff then you could do the same IRL. Its the only part of flyff that will help you in life, unless you should happen across an ad for a mammoth slayer

by the way:

I begged cromiell for this section so players could help each other with advice tips and guides. The fact that gala consented speaks volumes in respect to their commitment to helping players. it is not a forum for flaming merchants or gala. While your question concerning merchanteering, methods, economics,ways and means, basic capitalism, and other related economic questions are welcome, negitive comments about the game are not. You see here we strive to teach other players how to master the economy, imporve their skills, and enhance their overall gaming experence. Turn this in to a flaming section and it could very well disappear, as without this section gala could very well sell more gpots. Most of the posters in this section are trying to help their fellow players. so please respect this forum.

Thank you.

[ace__]

Go get rich.
Those people are rich because they played for a long time and earned it.
If you don't like how people are saying they're rich and you're poor then become rich.
It's not that hard.
Make a full strength merc or full int mage, level it to level 48, and go plug hunting.
Sell every plug for 40m.
Even if you just find one.
That's 40m right there.

Less QQ more Pew Pew.
~Ace

[blastervnd]

for both of u
im not just didn't care about the forum before, i have been on and off since v5, im not poor well im not filthy rich either but i think 3b is enugh to get around and since i have all my pro equip i dont need desperely need money. but the sistem does favor a small group of player u sure dont complain couse u are one of them. why only a small amount of player can buy a bloody set? dont we all should?

[_razied]

for both of u
im not just didn't care about the forum before, i have been on and off since v5, im not poor well im not filthy rich either but i think 3b is enugh to get around and since i have all my pro equip i dont need desperely need money. but the sistem does favor a small group of player u sure dont complain couse u are one of them. why only a small amount of player can buy a bloody set? dont we all should?

I'm afraid your wrong, Ace makes his penya grinding and merchanting. as to me, the rich and powerful you describe hate me with a passion as i tend to be the one they have to deal with when they need that not so available items. I have always tried to give back to the sever ( were both on demian) and my two terms as lord are remembered for the multi day long lord events i threw ( without any aid from tower taxes ). i do not tower due to to negitive impact on ones rep, however, I do know the tower/ lord system provide much needed penya sinks and help the overall economy. I have on more than one occasion took to the dessert to hunt lgas for friends in need, and try to help people become wealthy thru sound methods. i have found an [I Have a Potty Mouth] is an [I Have a Potty Mouth] be they rich or poor, that being said stop hating on people. My methods are listed in the " Method of Moto, a guide to weath " and believe anyone can achieve wealth. The "system" does favor a small group of players, the ones who work the hardest/ spent the most. But beyond that known group is another less known and even more powerful group. The uber merchants, the ones with tens of billions and the ability to expand their wealth at the drop of a hat. They can drives prices at will, sieze the market, destroy profits, or even make it imposible for anyone to buy anything. These guys sneer at the tower, because if they wanted to screw the poor, they could do it without you ever knowing who they are. Beside 20% tax is petty when you can double or even triple prices at will. Before you say anything bad, might also want to know these same guys tend to favor a stable market with marginal prices as it yields better profits. They are the ones that push prices when supply gets short to encourage grinders to get to work and bring supplys to the market by rewarding thier efforts. They also buy up supply when prices tend to want to deflat. They keep each other in check with the knowledge that if one guy tries to control the market, the others will bleed him dry in a heartbeat ( dog eat dog). Want to correct the "injustice" of the game? then join us, and help keep a heathy market. Got a grudge against the rich high level players? Then be the guy they have to come to for that not so easy to find item. and charge them thru the nose. Use your wealth to help less fortunate players, or prehaps buy a uber tower team and set taxes low. Penya is power, more penya is more power. Use it to better the overall experence for all. point is stop crying about the rich/powerful players and do something about it. The power to right precieved wrongs is with in everyone grasp, so do something or sit back and do nothing , either way stop the crybaby stuff.

[poptard]

ilu razied

[_lyric_]

As this is a discussion about in-game economics, I'll be leaving it here. There are some good points in this thread made by some skilled merchants that could be a valuable resource to others, the original post notwithstanding.

[ace__]

As this is a discussion about in-game economics, I'll be leaving it here. There are some good points in this thread made by some skilled merchants that could be a valuable resource to others, the original post notwithstanding.

A.K.A. My post.

Go get rich.
Those people are rich because they played for a long time and earned it.
If you don't like how people are saying they're rich and you're poor then become rich.
It's not that hard.
Make a full strength merc or full int mage, level it to level 48, and go plug hunting.
Sell every plug for 40m.
Even if you just find one.
That's 40m right there.

Less QQ more Pew Pew.
~Ace

Moving on...

for both of u
im not just didn't care about the forum before, i have been on and off since v5, im not poor well im not filthy rich either but i think 3b is enugh to get around and since i have all my pro equip i dont need desperely need money. but the sistem does favor a small group of player u sure dont complain couse u are one of them. why only a small amount of player can buy a bloody set? dont we all should?

3b is filthy rich.
Stop bragging about your 3b and your pro equips.
The "system" only favors the group of people who are good at what they do.

If you attempt to resell ignice boards for 10x their original price, then you are stupid.
If you study the market carefully, look at what others have done, their prices and base your
prices on an educated guess, then you'll be one of the people who will be selling faster
than anyone. That's how it is in the real world. Smart people get money, stupid people don't.

I for one don't have to worry about it because I'm stable.
If I have enough to buy the bear essentials then I'm fine.
The "system" doesn't favor me or anyone else without giving them sharp turns.
I've had my bad and good times. I've had times where I wanted to quit and
have been merchanting weeks in to sell even one item.
I've had times when I've made 200m in one night and times when I haven't sold
a single item.

For the bloody set comment, I'd like to address this question:

What would a level [Example] 60 do with a bloody set?

I mean seriously, if you can't compete for the red chip then you probably can't
use the bloody set. Level 120+ are the only ones who should be able to buy it because
they are the only ones who are able to use it.

[guardiane]

first of all

if we all can afford anything we want

and all players are rich


guess wat????

theres no more excitement and challenging about this game if u can buy watever u want whenever u want.

well im not that rich my highest income is 1.6b and not complaining. by not being rich or afford watever i want it gives me more reason to play the game ^^ and to make more money.

and all rich ppl deserves to be rich xD bcuz probably they've been playing for 3-5 yrs now. dont u think it will be fair if a newby playing for 1 month can afford or has everything thats a player that been playing for 3-5 yrs? well, probably u'll say no

[fierce89]

Create many characters fill your storage with blue weapons if their is a 20% tax on the npc seller, just sell it
after wards. I do not know how tax system works but in my server I can just easily go to the npc that does not
have 20% tax.

[lezoni]

being poor is part of the game, you play to become powerful, rich, and reknowned...and we must not forget...if you want to be rich, you have to have a bigger amount of cash than an x% of the population, if you want to be powerful you have to acheieve a x lvl to be considered strong...if you wanna be reknowned you will have to accomplish things nobody else can...and to get each one of those it means you have to be BETTER than the player standing next to you.

its just a game, and thats how i see it...besides i love challanges

[ms_pooka]

does anyone else think that there are ways in which flyff now makes poor player poorer an rich players richer?

No, I don't think that, I know that. As in, it's a fact that taxes tax money from the masses (poor and OFTEN disenfranchised) and gives them to a select privilaged few (rich) with no benefit to anyone else.

I could say more but there is no point either people want a penya sink and so refuse to see the truth staring them in the face or they are a member of a tower guild and say they are doing nothing wrong them go lol at us in guild chat^^

[_razied]

does anyone else think that there are ways in which flyff now makes poor player poorer an rich players richer?

No, I don't think that, I know that. As in, it's a fact that taxes tax money from the masses (poor and OFTEN disenfranchised) and gives them to a select privilaged few (rich) with no benefit to anyone else.

I could say more but there is no point either people want a penya sink and so refuse to see the truth staring them in the face or they are a member of a tower guild and say they are doing nothing wrong them go lol at us in guild chat^^

I am no fan of the tower by any means. It was put in place to encourage the purchase of gpots and rewards the winners with 20% of everyones efforts.

That being said;

I refuse to be apart of a huge pity party for the poor or disenfranchised. That does nothing but encourage people to feel sorry for them selfs. Instead i put the information needed to improve their sitution here for everyone to read. I say lets not feel sorry for them, but help them with the vital information they need to empower them selfs. Encourage them to rise up and challenge the powers that be.

yes you can!!!

[soulair]

I have to say I been playing for a long time and still have not gotten 1bil but I have to say u really dont need money to lvl u just have to know a bunch of ring masters lol thats how I made it to where I am. full suport ring masters are all over the place who needs high priced wepons when u can just make low cost wepons with the same effects. so find an rm get an ok awakened wepon and kill stuff cause if u do not pay the over priced stuff prices tend to drop and thats when u buy. Simple economics that works u just have to suck it up and haev lots of hope

[milly_]

I'm perfectly fine with it, wanna know why?
It works out as it should. Did your teachers/graduation coach ever tell you that education pays? They weren't kidding. Those guys sitting in +10/28% atk sets are the smart ones who took advantages of people's own stupidity or took time to learn how everything worked and figured out how to make the most money in a given time.

Call scamming illegit, but that scammer is smart enough to take advantage of people's own stupidity to make money. Sure it doesn't look all that bright later on, but for the time they weren't caught, they were smart and used people for their own benefit. I'm not encouraging scamming(not actively, but people might take it as I am), but realize they were the smart ones who made money in the situation.

Bloody sets were make 10k red chips and purchase limited to Darkon Tower winners specifically because they didn't want every Lv110 person to have one. The Superpowered Asmodan makes the players who win tower just break even. It could be different with everyone NPCing their drops every day, but that's not the case. Of course a lot more people can afford it now(heck even I can probably pull that off by this point, and I'm not the richest person or even close to rich), but they still don't want everyone buying it. 2.5 bil for some people's best set is worth it. Some people don't even need bloody sets because their Lv105 sets prove superior(ie jesters). Money is for the people who are willing to work for it/willing to learn how to work for it. If the poor aren't getting any richer, it's their fault no one else's.

@ace. 3b isn't much. Wanna know why? Cuz I have that EQ+penya ;D

[ms_pooka]

does anyone else think that there are ways in which flyff now makes poor player poorer an rich players richer?

No, I don't think that, I know that. As in, it's a fact that taxes tax money from the masses (poor and OFTEN disenfranchised) and gives them to a select privilaged few (rich) with no benefit to anyone else.

I could say more but there is no point either people want a penya sink and so refuse to see the truth staring them in the face or they are a member of a tower guild and say they are doing nothing wrong them go lol at us in guild chat^^

I am no fan of the tower by any means. It was put in place to encourage the purchase of gpots and rewards the winners with 20% of everyones efforts.

That being said;

I refuse to be apart of a huge pity party for the poor or disenfranchised. That does nothing but encourage people to feel sorry for them selfs. Instead i put the information needed to improve their sitution here for everyone to read. I say lets not feel sorry for them, but help them with the vital information they need to empower them selfs. Encourage them to rise up and challenge the powers that be.

yes you can!!!

by disenfranchised I meant people under lvl 60 who can't vote b/c if you are over 60 you have a small degree more power in the tax game even if you chose not to use it, but honestly in the end there is nothing that the majority of people can do. If you are seriously poor you can't hold on to your drops and wait to sell for more money b/c you need the money now. I wouldn't be content but I wouldn't see this as such a terrible issue if at least there was no tax added to buy and sell gear lvl 60 or below.

Honestly at the end of the day the only thing you personally can do about this is not pay taxes, and I don't. I don't need food b/c I 1v1 I get more than enough pills from collecting, and I put all my drops on a mule for no taxes, but if you aoe you can't afford to not buy food, pills, or vitas/refreshers. But that isn't a solution to the problem, it's just a work around. The only solution will be if they remove the tax system or else change it to the point that it actually helps more people than it hurts.

The point I am trying to make is that the system is fundamentally flawed and no matter how many people you teach to make money in different ways or teach how to get around paying taxes that doesn't change the fact the system is flawed.

[astrohawke]

Maybe they should just remove the shops altogether and you can just go try and sell all your drops to other players. Then come QQ about not making enough money. But hey, at least you won't be paying any tax. /ridicule